Notes on a rookie season…..

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Message par Hill Hound le Lun 27 Déc - 23:26

Hill Hounds
Division 5b

I began in 5b about a week into Season 7. My goals:
(A) not mess up my finances
(B) learn how the race engine worked
(C) figure out how to improve my team

Klauser’s excellent Beginner’s Guide wasn’t in English yet (thanks for the translation, Kwak!), so I made some newbie errors.
- Signed an International Trainer. A couple weeks later I dropped him down to a Regional Trainer, for $15,000 less per day. The difference was just .01 less training points per day.
- Promoted a couple of riders with a Local Recruiter. Classic newbie error!
- Many race day mistakes!

Klauser writes that “A lot of strategies are possible at the beginning. Here is a middle term (?) strategy which goal is to have a good team and good finances.” I’d like to offer a little different beginning strategy than the one he offers (mine may not be as good, though!! Laughing ).

I studied the leader in my division (CC Condé sur ifs) to see how he was building his team, and saw that he was not recruiting at all, but buying on the Transfer list, and had built easily the strongest team in 5b. He was earning between 50,000-80,000 Euros a day! He had 6-8 riders and raced them all just about every day. He had paid 315,000 for his best rider (2,074 Wage, age 22) and has added two better riders since (2,200 and 2,300 Wage) with his race winnings.

By the time I sorted this out, a couple weeks had gone by, and I was 100’s of points behind the top 4 teams, so promoting in S7 was impossible.

I decided to copy CC Conde, in part, and started adding riders to compete in Season 8. I have three useful support riders (~1,700 wage) and two leaders of (~2,000/2100). Since I think all five of the teams ahead of me will promote to D4, I should start S8 as the dominant team in 5b, and hopefully be winning 50,000+ Euros a day. I’ll use the money to add at least one rider of 2,400 Wage quality (to stay competitive in D4 the following season) and probably hire my International Recruiter and start pulling riders. I've kept some U22 riders around, though, which may not be smart, but it's more fun for me, and I wanted to see how training worked before I invested too much in youngsters! I plan to race the 21yo as a 22yo next season, and hopefully win lots of U22 stuff.

We will see how it goes!
Hill Hound
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Message par braizz le Jeu 30 Déc - 15:06

I just started a few weeks ago but my strategy is absolutely opposite than yours. I prefer promote young riders with the international recruiter, and when i had 7 or 8 very young riders (18-19-20) and with a big potencial i bought an international coach to train them as better as posible. I have no hurry to jump divisions if i don´t have a good team of sub22. The benefits will come when i start to sell some of them and buying better riders, while the rest of my youth have improved and continue to improve.
We used opposite tactics for the same objective Wink
braizz
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Message par Invité le Jeu 30 Déc - 15:14

Dear braizz,
I use the same tactic as you. It is long (you have to wait until the young riders are 22 or 23). Next year I will see if this tactic is good because my young riders are going to participate to the races Very Happy

Good luck for the game Wink

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Message par braizz le Jeu 30 Déc - 15:21

That way always have worked to me in another games, so i hope here will be the same Smile
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Message par Lexus le Jeu 30 Déc - 15:26

you can also do the two tactics : buy some good riders to get points and money, and in the same time promote young riders to prepare your future

Lexus

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Message par braizz le Jeu 30 Déc - 15:35

Yes, I have finished to recruit enough youngers, so now , my next objective is to buy some good rider
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Message par Hill Hound le Ven 31 Déc - 20:43

I'm definitely interested in promoting young riders, but decided to make some money first! My goal isn't so much to promote as to build the team as fast as I can. I like being competitive, so I'm trying to balance building the team, and at the same time winning some races.

I always look at finances in any manager game, and sponsor money (which just went up for me from 40,000 to 43,488) and Shops (about 17,000 now) just won't be enough without winning on the road. Also - I think sponsor and shop $$ is tied partly to results.

I try to be financially conservative when shopping in a new game. I think I've gotten good value for my purchases so far, and I've developed a bit of an idea what young rider's worth is. Now when I start pulling I know what wage to hold/sell/kick a young rider at ages 18/19/20. I also wanted to wait for Season 8 to start to see what kind of wage increase riders might see. I'm going to sell a few of my riders off now to make some room later for promotions.

My plan hit a little bump in the road when I was shifted to a new Div (5i), with a different set of teams. Based on my quick scouting, I think I am still the best, but there are several teams much closer in talent than the ones left in my one division at end of Season 7. Grrrr. Don't think I will be as dominant as I wanted.

Thanks for the feedback on the thread, all! I'll post another update once racing starts.

I think the mark of a good game is you can be successful playing it with different styles, and Velo seems to be one of those good games.
Hill Hound
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Message par Hill Hound le Sam 8 Jan - 22:23

Well - after 1 week I'm pretty happy with how things are going. My riders earned just over 500K in six races, winning the last five. I bought a couple riders, promoted a couple of staff, bought some equipment, and still have 500K in the account.

Now I need to be patient, and build cash up to buy one rider with a 2500+ wage to be my new leader. Then I'll promote my recruiter and start bringing in new riders.

Elsewhere in Div 5i:
-HTC made a great buy this week, getting a 2,600+ wage ex-pro rider for a cool million. He should have his Form raised to where he's unbeatable now, so my winning streak should end very soon.
-VigoWKY is doing well, solidly in 4th place.
-liberte is in 3rd thanks to his attacking style, and has the top ranked U22 rider.
-ESSMcyclisme is sitting 2nd overall with a solid team and solid tactics.
Hill Hound
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Message par Hill Hound le Mer 26 Jan - 2:43

3 weeks into Season 8....

winnings up over 1.7M. Won both TTTs (the TdF TTT was a great race between ESSMcyclisme and the Hounds - the lead went back and forth before I snuck in with a 1.9 sec win!!)

Bought three riders; a pair of 21yos and a 25yo who has my highest wage ($,2,249). I think I overpaid on Arnold (wage 2,100; 800,000E) but I estimate he will wind up at 2,600+ wage, so I'm good. He'll give me a strong U22 rider in D4. Turns out all three new guys are USA riders, so that's nice for the team.

D5i looks like this atm (only 10 active teams):

Rank Last name Country Points Victories
1 Hill Hounds [USA] 5454 13
2 ESSMcyclisme [Canada] 4335 0
3 VigoWKY [Suisse] 1653 0
4 liberte [Autriche] 1649 2
5 Fuentes_Crazy_Crew [Belgique] 1489 1
6 htc [Roumanie] 1038 6
7 Tropela [Allemagne] 452 1
8 Shinozaki-Team [Belgique] 436 0
9 mimi72 [France] 76 0
10 toufik29 [France] 23 0

I got tired of mechanical breakdowns so raised my Mechanic from Regional to National. Seems to have made a difference. Smile
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Message par Kazistuta le Jeu 27 Jan - 17:47

Started playing VM early in the year, so far racked up nine victories, 4184 points (a 1400 points lead), promoted three more-than-decent 18-yo hill talents and training them fully (one of them even have been selected for NT duty already!), promoted another talent, a TT who was sold for 5 mill - yeah, guess I can't complain (besides the fact that I lost the World Cup lead last sunday and seemingly can't get the UCI lead either)....

So far in division 6c it seems possible both to compete AND train talents - I know I've only got three, but if I promoted another, I would just fire/sell one of the competing riders (don't need to place 5 riders in top10 every race ;-)

Kazistuta

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Message par Hill Hound le Ven 18 Fév - 17:06

EOS update for Season 8, Div 5i:
1 Hill Hounds [USA] 11139 24 wins
2 ESSMcyclisme [Canada] 7455 0 (very competitive team!)
3 VigoWKY [Suisse] 4644 4
4 liberte [Autriche] 3023 2
5 Tropela [Allemagne] 2370 9
6 Fuentes_Crazy_Crew [Belgique] 1555 1
7 Shinozaki-Team [Belgique] 1082 0
8 htc [Roumanie] 1038 6 (stopped racing during TdF)
9 mimi72 [France] 82 0
10 popo [France] 39 0
11 toufik29 [France] 23 0
12 le BVS [France] 13 0 (only 12 active teams scored points)

-Added a couple riders (Wage 2,400-2,600) who can score some points in Div4 next season.
-Added a couple 21yos to ride and score points in U-22 next season.
-Never got around to pulling any riders.

Pretty happy with those results. I'll figure out what my S-9 goals are after the season turn.
Hill Hound
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Message par Lenny Bernstein le Lun 21 Fév - 21:00

I like your updates Hill Hounds, thanks.

I've just signed up to Velo Manager at team SexyBank. We started in Division 6l and we won our first race and came second in our second one, which resulted in immediate promotion to 5c the next day. I've been mainly focused on pulling riders so far, but have also bought a $1770 climber to hopefully guarantee me a bit of income and maybe the odd win.

Reading your posts Hill Hounds, I think I may stop my youth recruitment shortly and focus on training the ones I have, meanwhile saving up to buy a couple of quality riders to earn me some money and points.

I'm also unsure how to go about training. Do I keep the a rest limit of 50 for my young riders? Or should I be raising it to say 86 if I want to be competitive.
I'm also assuming I need enough riders to give key riders a rest in between races?

Lenny Bernstein

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Message par Hill Hound le Dim 27 Fév - 7:13

@Lenny B: Very Happy

If you are patient (I'm not Exclamation ) pulling riders can work for you (I think you also have to be pretty brutal cutting/selling riders to keep making roster space for those new pulls - also not something I'm good at). I felt the E20,000/day salary for the top scout (plus E10,000 per pull) was too high for me at the start, and I like to race, so I went with building a team off the TL.

I took a peek at 5c, and Team Avenir is going to totally dominate. You have the 8th highest payroll, though, so you should be in the points running, but winning races will be tough (the top-10 5c riders have wages>$2,300).

I recommend scouting other teams to get some ideas about team-building options. Avenir, for instance, has built a team of 21/22yos. youngsters gain ~300 in wages per season, even with just a regional trainer, so you can see he will have some $2,900+ riders in a season or two. Since the best riders in the game are earning $3,400, he should be able to compete with them right up to Div 2.

Since 18/19yos bring the best prices early in the season, you might want to stay with your pulling plan another week or so before shutting it down.

You will need competitive riders (i.e.; wage $2,400+) to finish in the top-4 this season. You might do better to build the team for a strong campaign next season. A couple things to think about when buying riders:

- Mountain/TT guys need Resistance. Cobble/adventurers need Stamina for those long courses. I started out not paying attention to Res/Sta and picked up some guys I should have passed on.
- Look for a cheap (<80K) Mtn/TT/Res rider with 70+ in all three. He can do well in the 7-day races even if he is poor in other areas.
- Prices seemed to drop later in the season. Another reason to perhaps stay with your pulling program a bit longer.
- Look at the wages of the top riders in Div 3 and 4. That's where you want to be in 2-4 seasons, so getting a couple of quality guys who can race at that level is not a bad idea.

As far as training goes, I'd aim to have 9-10 guys who you intend to race (I have too many and need to sell off a few). Set the rest limit of the youngsters that you don't plan to race at all at 50, and forget them. For the others, 2 options:

- the easy/lazy option - set their training at 93 and they will always be 100 on race day, or...
- the harder way, which takes some work...log in each day between 21:00 and 00:00 game time. Set your lineup and tactics for the next day's race. then go to training and drop the rest limit down on anyone who is sitting the next race out, to ensure they get training. Make sure everyone who is racing is set to 93. On Saturday, before the 00:00 training update, set all your riders to lower rest limits so they all train, since Sunday is National races and your guys are all off. Sunday reset them to 93 so they are at 100 again for Monday. This allows me to get some training in on everyone at least once a week, and I don't lose much health doing it.

Good luck!!

ps: don't forget to go to http://velo-manager.forum-pro.fr/t754-confection-maillot and ask thecrow to make you a team jersey - he does awesome work, and you can post your design request in English.
Hill Hound
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Message par Hill Hound le Mar 1 Mar - 22:14

Another team to look at is in my division 4d - Lexus Team.
http://www.velo-manager.com/index.php?page=equipe&id=1471

He has a nice group of 19yos who should top out in the 2,800-3,100 wage range, forming the core of a very solid Div 1 or 2 team. He drafted 4 of the 19yos and bought one (best I can figure).

Also - he has 10 racers and 5 trainees. Those 10 racers are easily going to get him promoted to Div 3, so you'd have to say he's built a really nice squad. You or I could do a lot worse!! Laughing
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Message par Lenny Bernstein le Mer 2 Mar - 20:59

Wow, thanks for all the advice, really appreciated!

I've actually ceased my pulling strategy for now. I felt I had enough young riders for now, and seem to be picking up a few decent placings which is helping me to a earn a little cash. So I think my aim now is to save to buy a couple of decent older riders, as you say, that will be able to compete in Division 3. But I'd also like to buy the odd youngster too.

One question I have about youth development is, how can you predict what their maximum potential is, or what wage they will eventually reach? You talk about Lexus Team who has 19yos who should top you at 2800-3100 - how can you predict this?

With the conditions from promotion changing (top 10 placing needed, rather than top 4), I should be OK for promotion, so I guess it's all about building for next season. I've taken your advice and selected 4 youngsters who I will just leave to train. Hopefully I can afford to leave one or two more to train too if I pick up a couple of quality seniors.

Looks like you have developed a pretty tasty team and are cruising to promotion. And in Henderson you have a very nice prospect for the future...

Lenny Bernstein

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Message par Hill Hound le Mer 2 Mar - 23:54

Lenny Bernstein a écrit:One question I have about youth development is, how can you predict what their maximum potential is, or what wage they will eventually reach? You talk about Lexus Team who has 19yos who should top you at 2800-3100 - how can you predict this?
study Laughing
1) I spent some time my first season scouting 18/19/20/21/22 on the TL to get a sense of value. Minimum age/wage for me is
18 ~1,500 / 19 ~1,600 / 20 ~1,900 / 21 ~2,100 / 22 ~2,400 {very rough, after two weeks scouting the highest sale $$}

2) I tracked my kid's wage growth, and even with just a regional trainer they all popped 300 points. So you can estimate that a 19yo at wage 1,600 will be ~2,800 at age 23 (4 seasons*300=1,200). Ofc, <300 in 1st season if pulled after 1st week, since training time will be less.

Lenny Bernstein a écrit:With the conditions from promotion changing (top 10 placing needed, rather than top 4), I should be OK for promotion, so I guess it's all about building for next season. I've taken your advice and selected 4 youngsters who I will just leave to train. Hopefully I can afford to leave one or two more to train too if I pick up a couple of quality seniors.
Good timing for you (and nice to see the game growing!) Thanks to you, I had to stop and look at my roster - I've been selling off riders I don't need and I'll be down to just 10 racers soon. Also brought in a little cash. Wink
Lenny Bernstein a écrit:Looks like you have developed a pretty tasty team and are cruising to promotion. And in Henderson you have a very nice prospect for the future...
Thanks! I'm as shocked as anyone at how my team is doing. Surprised
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Message par Hill Hound le Jeu 7 Avr - 19:37

Season 9 Update:

Rank Last name Points Victories
1 Hill Hounds 7548 17
2 rêvevelo 5371 3
3 Lexus Team 4670 21
4 vegas atlantic 2764 1

Just one race left on the calendar. Very happy to pick up another division win.

I picked up Dickson ($1.26M, salary $2856)) early in the season and he won UCI and WC. Just added Nedelec (salary $2921) for the same price, giving me a 1-2 punch for season 10. Only big mistake was the 7-day Tour de Suisse (which Dickson won) where I blew the team up on the TTT, forcing Dickson to ride solo most of the stages. Only one other Hound finished in the top 30. So although I won the TTT handily, it cost me the rest of the way.

Got to sort the roster and move a couple riders out...probably Franklin, Montgomery and Ziegler.

Looking forward to Division 3 competition next season and finding out if I can finish top-5.
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Message par tacki le Jeu 7 Avr - 19:57

Well done Hill Hound !

tacki
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Message par Gaspard08 le Jeu 7 Avr - 22:23

Well done, I'm happy for Dickson, He's certainly happier now, his career is relaunched
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Message par Hill Hound le Jeu 7 Avr - 22:31

Gaspard08 a écrit:Well done, I'm happy for Dickson, He's certainly happier now, his career is relaunched
Sorry that you didn't get more for him - I think he's worth $2M+ - I was lucky to get him!! He really added to his palmares this season. Very Happy
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